Back on topic though. Tim was the first Robin to wear pants, and I will always appreciate him for that. He’s was my favorite Robin before I got so attached to Damian. When TTGo had Red Robin in it, I would always tell my brothers, “That’s the cool Robin!”
Tim is better than us all! I gotta say though…I love super sons! It’s got it all! Hahaha!
In response to your third point about Damien and the Teen Titans, there was a storyline in Teen Titans before the New 52 where Dick has Damien visit them to try to get him to join, but at the end of the story he says that the Titans were Dick’s thing and Tim’s thing, but not his. I get that future writers would eventually want to use him to create their own stories, but I felt like the story really showed why he made the decision and it made sense for his character.
People are also likely mad because the Titans from the Johns era are forced out of being teen titans in favour of Damien, and that they are forced to revert to being young justice, getting rid of some of the development that they got as Titans
I didn’t intend for this to frustrate anyone. I definitely didn’t intend for it to be a “vs” thread. I simply wanted to point out that I love Tim. So do others. He has the most simple of all Robin origin stories.
Why do writers not use him properly? Why isn’t he in other media? Etc.
If you like Damien then groovy! If you like Todd then more power to ya! They’re all on the same fictional team…more or less. Clearly as fans we aren’t.
Oh I love them all and definitely think Tim is under-utilized.
-I never said that Damian was in “every” Bat book, I said that he was “all over” the Bat books, meaning that he was a frequent presence.
-I never said that Damian has been Robin for too long. I pointed out that de-ageing Batman while keeping his sidekicks (current and former) the same age makes for an increasingly glaring plot hole (how old was he when Talia raped him, exactly?). The fact that they’re blithely ignoring the plot hole so that they can still have Damian is my point. If you’re going to do a reboot, then actually do a reboot.
-I disagree with the idea that Tim only became Robin because someone else told him to be. If memory serves, and if DC hasn’t retconned it while I wasn’t looking, Tim figured out Batman’s secret identity and applied for the position in person, arguing that Batman needs Robin so that he has something positive to focus on.
-I not a big fan of the Red Robin identity. It only exists because Alex Ross wanted to bring back the Earth-2 adult Robin. It was step down from Nightwing, and, for Tim, served as a place to shove him while they took to heavily pushing Damian. Also, I have trouble taking it seriously because it’s also the name a popular(?) restaurant chain. It’s a corporate sponsorship joke waiting to happen.
-I honestly don’t see the growth Damian lovers keep talking about. I find nothing likable or charming about him or his behavior, and I’m usually someone who likes a good redemption storyline. At best, it’s a “not as much of a jerk as you could have been” type of thing. At best.
2. It’s become difficult, and I’d argue that DC’s doing it deliberately, to ignore Damian because he’s being heavily pushed as THE Robin. See my earlier comment about the Mere Exposure Effect.
3. Damian’s only the fourth Robin if you erase Stephanie, which only helps me make my point. Also, I don’t think that Jason was every closely involved with the Titans. If memory serves, he exists because the Batman and Teen Titans creative teams made the deal that Dick would be a Titans character and Robin would be a Batman character. I remember Dick responding to his death in the the New Teen Titans. If anything, having Tim be with the Titans and keeping Damian in Batman seems like a better idea than forcing Damian into everything that they possibly can, especially since, as bpyoro pointed out, Damian had previously noted that the Titans were Dick and Tim’s thing.
DC’s heavily pushing a base-breaking character that I can’t stand, to the extent that it’s kind of becoming hard to avoid him (again, Mere Exposure Effect; it’s a thing), and doing so at the expense of characters that I like. That can’t help but irritate me. I shouldn’t state my opinion of him as character as objective truth, since fiction is inherently subjective, and if I’ve upset any Damian fans out there, I’m sorry. But I genuinely don’t see anything likable about his character or how he’s presented, and it’s not just how he was originally shown. Nothing I’ve seen from him since (and I’ve read the same books you have, for the most part) has done anything to make me feel differently.
Whatever you’re seeing in him, I’m not. I almost wish that I could, since I’m not inherently into causing conflict, but I can’t. I’ve seen nothing worthwhile in him, and I get frustrated because it sometimes feels like I can’t get away from him.
It’s not your fault. Damian’s become a base breaker, as I’ve noted multiple times. I was just answering your question, as I saw it. The Powers That Be are only interested in pushing Damian. Tim gets left by the wayside. That’s not even a negative about Damian himself, although I admit that I let some of my dislike for the character come through in my earlier post. That’s why Tim’s not being used properly and is being passed over and ignored, at least as far as I can see.
Tim got plenty of love as Robin in The new adventures of Batman & Robin. And in The Batman animated series. Tim is getting the short end of the stick right now. But, so did Grayson when Jason came on the scene. Time will adjust things.
I am of the camp that (A) Damien is still a snot nosed little brat at heart. (B) They are really over using Damien to drive the Batman as a biological father troupe.
I kind of felt like “Tim Drake” in the animated series was Jason Todd with Tim Drake’s name. He had Jason’s background, and his father was killed by Two-Face. Also, I don’t think that Dick was underutilized when he stopped being Robin. He was the leader of the New Teen Titans during that whole time period, which was DC’s top-selling book for years.
But, at the core of the charter seemed much more of Tim’s Robin because Jason’s Robin was such an expletive deleted.
Also, NTT was a team book. DC didn’t let Grayson stand on his own for years.
To each his own, but I’ve always felt that he was Jason Todd with Tim Drake’s name; softened, perhaps, for children’s television.
NTT was a team book, but Dick went from being Batman’s sidekick to leading the team in DC’s top-selling book. That feels like an upgrade to me.
I guess Tim is leading Young Justice, so that’s something?
Where he’s leading them? I don’t know! I’d say toward cancellation if sales weren’t consistently 25,000.
I’m hoping BMB getting a cowriter helps the title. He clearly needs someone there with him to say “we’re not naming a beloved character after deadly male ducks from earth-3”.
I’m going to be controversial and say I like all of them to a degree. I like Damian a lot and respect those before him. For me, the others have evolved into their own characters so it I don’t need some kind of #notmyrobin campaign. I think a big problem with Damian is that he isn’t written with consistency. I think Super Sons was great and he showed humor, humanity, and heroism, whereas Teen Titans seems dead-set on keeping him as an abrasive borderline villain.
After all of that, I think Tim is poorly used and I blame Bendis. I know Tim was misused before this but I think Bendis currently cares more about some kind of DC “legacy” for changing things rather than becoming part of the DCU.
Yeah, I think Tomasi really got the characters. When Bendis came in you could definitely see a difference in how the characters acted. Superboy became your typical teenager. Hopefully Bendis does better with these characters in a timely fashion.
In some of the animated films I did not like how the cut out Tim to add Damian. I get why they wouldn’t want to hire another actor when they already had one. But I hope the introduce him and Jason in a future movie. The same is with the tv shows as well. They ignore either Jason or Tim. Conveniently TTGo is the only tv series I’ve seen where each Robin has either made a cameo or been on the show. Even Carrie Kelly.
Good question and honestly I’ve been wondering about for a long time
With the way things are going, you’d be lucky to get a Tim Drake origin story, but would most likely get one for Stephanie Brown or Carrie Kelley.
Maybe. Welcome to the community.
Tim Drake was not in Batman: The Animated Series! He was only in The New Batman Adventures! Watch the episode Sins of the father from The New Batman Adventures, that is Tim Drake’s origin story in the DCAU! You obviously haven’t watched either of those shows very much.
To me it’s a question of characterization through out the series. Robin’s behavior is more in line with Tim Drake’s character, than Grayson or Todd. They may not be called Tim, but the characteristics lean towards those of Drake more than the others. That’s all I’m saying. One can make the same argument for the Tim Drake characterization of Robin in The Batman Animated Series as well.
Also I look, as do some others I have come across, that BTAS and New Adventures are really the same show. Given that virtually all of the characters (and voice actors) from BTAS carried over to New Adventures. If you want to pedantically split hairs, yes, no Robin was in BTAS only New Adventures.
Apparently the news section has good news for Timmy fans.