WW '84 Critique & Discussion

Discuss and critique your thoughts on the movie

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I can’t wait!!! I’m going to watch after Christmas so it has my undivided attention, than I’ll return spoiler free & post my opinion. Although, it looks like a can’t lose type of deal to me. I’m sure it will be awesome!!! Happy Holidays :gift::tada:

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I’m so excited about this! We re-watched the first one the other day so we are prepared for tomorrow.

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Oh…that’s a great idea. I’m going to do that today as well.

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Just so everybody knows it comes to HBO Max at noon Eastern. That means 9AM Pacific, and 11 where I live. Less than an hour away.

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Ok, so at this point I assume anyone here is aware that spoilers are likely from this point.

Overall, I was disappointed in the movie.

Action: The opening is the best part of the movie which is unfortunate because that means 2+ hours that doesn’t live up to the first 10 minutes. When we finally get WW, the action is way too reliant on the lasso and the editing is mediocre. Diana is a warrior and capable of so much but she barely fights without the lasso. And the final fight with Cheetah was so lame that they essentially just swung around at each other. Now I know some will say that Diana looks for peaceful ways to end conflict and I appreciate that characterization but when she does end up in physical conflict she is unparalleled. But not in this movie. I mean, Max incapacitated her with wind.

Villains: I found the focus to be entirely too much on Max and although I think Pascal was going for 80’s villain cheesiness it just didn’t work for me. I found his performance pretty cringeworthy and his motivation was really murky. He got more and more desperate and frantic but I never felt clear as to why besides just saying “more”. He didn’t sit still long enough for me to feel like he wasn’t satisfied with what he had. His character resolution showed no consequences for the level of villainy he rose to and the flashbacks that were supposed to make us sympathetic didn’t achieve it.
It’s a pretty common trait for superhero movies to rely too heavily on their villains but in this case Cheetah didn’t get enough time. I thought Wiig did a good job but it was like her character always changed off screen and she barely got time to be threatening. The last battle was pretty sloppy.

Plot: I felt the plot was very clunky and transitions between scenes were just like “well, we are here now”. Suspension of disbelief is important in a film about a flying warrior goddess but little things irked me. The jet was fueled up at the museum? Where did they land it and then get back to the US? What is the lasso catching onto? (Probably Spider-Mans webs). Did other people see Steve as Steve or did he look to them like the other guy? Who looked distractingly like Henry Cavill to me. I know the DCEU is a mess and I think they are ignoring some points from BvS and JL but they could do a little to explain Diana’s presence and visibility. Hitting a few cameras with a tiara doesn’t cut it. Finally, the ending with the wish retractions was so sappy and it matched my least favorite part of the first film when suddenly Nazis are getting hugs. Yes, Diana is about love but my criticism is the follow through.

In previous films I have really like Gal Gadot but here she wasn’t given all that much to accomplish.

I really really wanted to like this movie but just never connected the way I did with the first.

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It was decent. It was nowhere near as good as the first one, but it’s about on the level of, say, Iron Man 3.

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Just to be clear, this review will be filled with spoilers. So read ahead at your own discretion.

I really wanted to like this movie. I love Diana Prince in the comics and I think Wonder Woman has not had nearly enough spotlight in mainstream media compared to the other members of the trinity. I went into this film with high hopes, but left it completely underwhelmed and disappointed. Before I explain that, I’ll throw out some positives since I don’t think it’s fair to just trash on a film (no matter how much I may think it deserves it).

Patty Jenkins does a phenomenal job at character-focused, emotional scenes. Moments between Steve and Diana at the Smithsonian or flying through the fireworks are great! They do a good job at conveying emotion and meaning. Pedro Pascal delivers a phenomenal performance as Maxwell Lord. His character in particular was a stand out of this film that I really enjoyed and would have loved to seen more of. With that said, that is literally the only praise I have for this film. Now where to begin on criticism?

To start, while I do like Jenkins’ character scenes, she continues to show complete lack of ability to direct engaging and meaningful action (especially when it needs to be integrated with CGI). Diana floats through the entire world, hardly making contact in any way (look at segments where she runs if you want more detail on that). While it could be argued that this is to showcase Diana’s grace and elegance as a fighter, there are many better ways to do this. Jenkins’ approach leaves the scenes without any impact, gravity, or weight (the key elements of filming good action). This is made worse by Gal Gadot still not being a very good actor. Her line deliveries are almost always monotone and lack any emotion or nuance. Even in the climactic moment where she gives up Steve again.

To be fair to Gal, she really didn’t have much to work with in this film. Diana suffers from passive character syndrome. Meaning she doesn’t impact the plot whatsoever. She’s just along for the ride. Which is a complete failure as a writer. It’s boring and bad. The only decision that Diana makes in the entire film is to bring Steve back, which she did on whim without any thought and really had no effect on the story overall. This leads to Diana’s character hardly changing in the film. I mean, seriously, can anyone here tell me what arc Diana went through as a character. How she changed or grew during the film? The scene with Steve at the end where she gives him up implies that she had grown into a noble hero who saw past her own selfish motivations, but that makes no sense because we never see her struggling with this before hand. The only time it’s hinted at is during that lunch scene between her and Barbara at the beginning where the two just spewed exposition at one another for about five minutes.

Speaking of Barbara, why was she even in this movie? She literally does nothing. Her motivations are unclear and make no sense (which is ironic given that most of her dialogue is just saying she wants things). The only reason I can think of her being in this movie is purely out of fan service with trying to get Cheetah on the big screen. Maxwell Lord completely over shadows her, but then again maybe it’s because he’s the only character with a bit of nuance and development. Who’s motivations are clear and not just handed out in pointless back and forth dialogue.

This entire film literally felt like I was watching the first draft of a script. With none of the fat taken out and none of the promising aspects developed to be interesting or engaging. I’m so gutted by this given how badly I want Wonder Woman to have the chance to shine on the platform she deserves. Here’s hoping that the third time’s the charm. I mean, hey, it took Thor that long too.


Here are some other critiques I wanted to point out, but didn’t know how to include in the review.

  • The opening scenes on Themyscaria and then in the mall were completely pointless and added nothing to the plot, nor the character that we didn’t already know.
  • Steve Trevor is another character that feels completely pointless in this movie, which is a shame considering he could have had an interesting set-up. I mean, he was literally in another man’s body. Why not explore that a bit more? The impact on that random dude’s life would have been crazy. It could have been super interesting to explore.
  • The humor in this film literally never landed for me. The only time I laughed was not by the film’s intention. It was when Diana tried to save those random kids in the road in Cairo, but then lost her grip and proceeded to crush them into the pavement.
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i liked it, cheetah fight kinda anti-climatic hopefully we can see more of Cheetah. low key wish we hand Kangas in the opening. The invisible jet was awesome. also, anyone feel like this could lead into JLI/JLEwe have Max Lord who wants to be better person for his family and fix mistakes uses con man sweet-talking to create super hero team we already have simons Stagg as a villain

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I agree on the problems of:
the lasso that suddenly serves 8 different functions
Plot logic is both a bit hard to follow and also requires suspension of disbelief
Would have benefitted from a bit more editing, with easy-to-spot padding evident as of the first scene

However, I think it was the closest thing to a fitting Christmas movie the DC Universe will ever deliver. It was the most family-friendly film DC has done, and, though it is always easier to crank up the main character’s rage and end in a hail of explosions, they showed a peace and harmony approach can be successfully pulled off. Likewise, making the villains somewhat relatable is a the toughter road to take, but that choice did not detract from the film.

Performances were well done. The Gadot-Pine chemistry still worked very well. Outside of the lasso getting over-used, the action scenes were exciting. The explanation for Pine’s presence worked for me.

Watching a big DC blockbuster on day one from my own home felt like a luxery. I would have liked to see it on the big screen, but at the same time, the family discussed the film all the way through it, and it was a movie that gives you plenty to discuss.

So Thumbs-Up from me

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Have you not watched Shazam! yet???

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A good movie… Really do wish we could’ve avoided the release drama, because that tainted the whole experience.

Also, I’m fine. :grin::+1:
-S.T.

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Shazam is generally more graphically violent and horrific than WW84.

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The only really graphic thing in Shazam was the office scene. But even then, no blood or anything. Maxwell Lord’s physical breakdown and Cheetah at the end are arguably more graphic in that sense.

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They’re arguably NOWHERE NEAR AS GRAPHIC in any sense.

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I’ll concede that i could be forgetting scenes. But like i said, beyond that office scene i cant think of anything. Maybe the car crash. What is so graphic in that movie in your mind? Jog my memory. (I’m being genuine here). I’d say ww84 and Shazam are pretty equal for family friendly content.

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Absolutely loved it. I can’t say it was perfect film but I gave me such unbridled joy. I will probably a more lengthy response sometime soon, but right now I am on a cloud 9!

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I actually really loved the film. It didn’t EXCEED my expectations but definitely met them. Im Glad they explained the whole Steve coming back thing. Especially when JL was supposedly in newer timeline it made since why he isn’t “here”now and still mourning. But overall it was really enjoyable.

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A big part of it is how floaty the fights in WW84 feel. Even the big brawl in the White House never feels as weighty as the opening moments of this fight:

Diana would just have disheveled hair and a mild pallor at this point.

Plus, anything involving the Rock of Eternity or the Seven Deadly Sins is played for horror.

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I mean, I think the fact that yhe action in wonder woman not having weight is a bad thing. But beyond that, i dint think the weight of this scene makes it graphic. Maybe we define that differently. When I’m thinking of graphic i thinking if blood and destruction everywhere. But there are really no serious injuries in that Shazam fight. It’s pretty cartoonist in my opinion. I wish ww84 did action like that instead.

Edit: And I think the cheetah transition and Maxwell lord’s breakdown is just as horrific has the deadly sins.

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